"If atheism is a religion then not collecting stamps is a hobby..."

Wonderful response on cloudsoup.com to the fact the BBC religion site has a section on the "religion" of atheism.

via Tom Coates

Comments

[Bob H]

I like being agnostic, sometimes it feels like being someone who goes to vote and selects "None of the above".

[Stephanie Booth]

I don't really agree. Well, I agree that it's not a "religion", but it is a "religious view". It is a belief which can be as strong as faith in something: the belief that there is no God out there.

From a belief standpoint, it's quite different from agnosticism. Being an atheist is as strong a statement of "religious belief" as being a follower of this or that religion. Atheist does not mean "having no religion", as in "not collecting stamps".

Again -- I agree I wouldn't call it a religion. But it's not comparable to "not collecting stamps". I think it's a bad parallel.

[Euan]

"Being an atheist is as strong a statement of "religious belief" as being a follower of this or that religion."

Not believing in something for which there has never been a shred of evidence is not something that should require justification nor even a name!

[Stephanie Booth]

"Not believing in something for which there has never been a shred of evidence..."

People who believe in something might tell you there is plenty of evidence for it -- so here, you're clearly speaking from the standpoint of somebody who "believes there is no evidence".

There is an important difference between "not believing in something" (which could be the position of an agnostic) and "believing there is nothing" (which is the atheist position).

[Euan]

Believing that something exists simply because there is no evidence that it doesn't opens the way for fairies!

I reckon we need a new word between agnostic and atheist. I agree that the conviction that there isn't something can appear as misguided as believing that there is but agnostic carries too much of a sense of "not being sure".

[ant]

I'm pretty sure that the BBC does not consider atheism, agnosticism or humanism as a religious point of view. If it did, then we may have heard some of those views in the Today programme's 'Thought for the Day' slot.
Perhaps a better term, rather than religion, is metaphysical point of view. However, I can see some issues trying to get the license fee payer to stump up for a 'Metaphysical Point of View' controller in todays climate!

[David Jones]

'I'm pretty sure that the BBC does not consider atheism, agnosticism or humanism as a religious point of view'

You're wrong, as a cursory check of the facts rather than a groundless self-pleasing hunch would have revealed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/

[Brian H]

The agnosticism comment is interesting, because it has long seemed to me that there are several distinct flavours. Strict agnosticism is a positive statement that it is impossible to know whether God(s) exist(s). "Not being sure" may just be uncertainty, not a conviction that certainty is unattainable, ever. And there's another, close to apathism, in which it just doesn't matter -- couldn't care less. And yet another, which says "I don't think so, but you might be right and I'll entertain your arguments and attempts to proselytize me, within reason." And yet another, the Seeker, who is very anxious about the subject but just doesn't find any of the current offerings persuasive, though he/she lives in hope of finding Truth.

So that's four or five, and none of them much appreciate being co-labelled with the others, and who will behave very differently in response to religious input. Similarly, there are a couple of sub-sets of atheists. There are those POSITIVE that there is no (G)god, and those who take disbelief as the best guess given the evidence, and those who are hostile to believers because they exhibit a kind of profound arrogance and susceptibility to brainwashed ignorance, and therefore want nothing to do with the process (belief) that apparently made them that way. I confess to something of the latter response; the thought that the televangelists might have even a fingernail on the right end of the stick is repulsive.

[Euan]

Great comment Brian - spot on. As you might have guessed I fall into the latter group too. I'd also characterize myself as a seeker as I am in no way anti spirituality and find what goes beyond the literal (or scientific) fascinating.

[Sean]

I completely agree with this post. I have also been trying for years to say what Euan has said, "Not believing in something for which there has never been a shred of evidence is not something that should require justification nor even a name!" but I have never been able to find the words that I wanted to say.

Thank you Euan. You are my hero.

[Forbes Good Life]

How about this quotation from Thoreau for this political age we live in "The effect of a good government is to make life more valuable; of a bad one, to make it less valuable. "

[Kelvin]

Elevating the concept of faith as a virtue above the concept of critical thinking is leading the USA down a very dark path. When Sarah Palin talks of the proposed Alaska pipeline as God's work or the invasion of Iraq as god's work, and so few people cry foul, I am afraid for our future. America's founders had the right idea separating Church & State, but many Republicans seem to want to change this. I say take all references to god and religion out of the pledge of allegiance, off our money, out of the court houses, out of public school class rooms (unless it is a "comparative religions of the world" type of class), and leave it where it belongs, believer's own homes and houses of worship. Its absurd that American gay couples have to fight for the same marriage rights as straight couples. The only arguments for this status quo situation are faith based, and therefore unconstitutional under the separation of church & state. That is why the good-old-days-faith-obsessed-regressives are attempting the end run strategy of just re-writing the constitution.

oops... sorry for that rant y'all... I need a breather...

[Duane]

I think it's more like "If atheism is a religion then not collecting stamps, obsessing about not collecting stamps, making it a priority to encourage people not to collect stamps, and fighting vigorously against stamp collectors for your right to not collect stamps is a hobby..." Oh, wait, that would be a hobby, however pathetic a hobby it might be.

[Euan Semple]

No Duane all I and others are doing is asserting the right not to have systematic, and in many countries intimidating, indoctrination a part of public life. I have no desire to prove to people that their belief in a God is wrong - it is up to them - but I do want to prevent them placing pressure, however subtle, on myself and those dear to me to adopt their views.